I'm tired today. It was a shitty week for blogging. I shot lots of stuff for clients that I'd be happy to share if only they weren't in an "embargo'd" state. Seems advertising clients don't really want to see photographs they paid lots of money to create in Instagram and on blogs long before their own publication and use. The images I created yesterday in Knoxville are of people and they'll need to be edited, selected and retouched before the client starts using them. It could be months before I'm cleared to show some....
Before I left I read a comment from a reader letting me know that my usual selection of images is quite repetitive, sterile and lifeless. I understand that he was not trying to be mean or troll-y but was in fact complimenting the set of images from the hike and bike trail I'd posted that day. All the same it made me pause and wonder just what the fuck a working photographer should be showing in a photography blog. I work a lot at my "job" but so much of it is video (and I seem to have only one or two readers who like to even read the word, "video.") or it's proprietary (re: money making and commissioned) imagery, and photographs of people created for marketing campaigns, etc. We're constrained by model agreements, NDAs and other contracts from showing some images in public venues.
In between the paying work (which I do show when I can) I don't have the time-luxury to run off to the Himalayas for a few days to jet in and shoot some extra landscapes for my loyal readers, haven't got time to rush off to Alaska to shoot a new batch of northern lights images in between corporate portrait projects, don't have time to rush off to Hollywood and wait around the pool at the Beverly Hills Hotel to scout for beautiful actresses to photograph (as if I had the access). All of which makes me ponder why I bother to spend time writing this dreadful blog anyway. No one really gives a shit about other people's photography other than to reverse engineer the stuff they find useful and then critique the rest. The fun glow of being a full time photographer has faded, culturally, at about the same rate as camera sales, and if you really need to know about camera technology there are literally millions of places to read about it, hear about it, and watch videos about it all over the web. Most of which are far more invested in the camera and lens review process than am I.
As I was sitting in the airport in Knoxville, delayed as we waited for United Airlines to fix a mechanical problem which may have led to the toilets overflowing, I sipped a bad cup of lukewarm coffee and pondered the concept of the blog; creating free content for anonymous consumers.
We finally got on board the plane and took off an hour late. As I ran from terminal to terminal in Houston International a couple hours later, trying to make my connection into Austin, my mind continued to mull over the blog conundrum. Was my desire to blog entirely driven by a need to be recognized in some way by the photographic community at large? Was it an attempt to connect with like minded people and discuss things about photograph we both share a passion for? Was it just a desire to keep writing as a way of creating my own journal of day to day life? And is there a restroom between here and gate C11? (yes, there was).
I think some of my readers have mistaken my role for that of an Instagram Influencer, thinking that I'm bound to entertain them in exactly the fashion they'd like because, of course, I'm being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by sponsors. I wish it was true. But, for the very linear minded here: I'm not. I was writing it for fun, but now that highly "curated" galleries of all new photographs, built to order, are more or less mandated I can feel the fun being sucked right out of the space.
I always thought the audience I imagined I was writing for was interested in the writing. Interested in what I thought about a certain subject or event. Why I work the way I do. What ways the gear influences in the work. What motivates me to work instead of just retiring from the field and frittering life away. But apparently it's the photographs that are important. The web is full of them. Have at it. Go crazy. I think I'll stop posting photographs after this. They just seem to get in the way of the process of blogging. Or maybe I'll just stop writing and post images of birds in flight, water flowing at slow shutter speeds, kittens, landscapes and other mindless filler instead. It sure would be easier than writing stuff down.
So. Here are some pretty landscapes. At least I think they are pretty. Knock yourselves out. I've got no words of wisdom or entertainment to accompany them.
Couldn't help it. I had to include the dancing girls.
59 comments:
Kirk, I look at your site EVERY morning and am disappointed when there is nothing new (not a problem, I understand).
I love what you write and I love your "boring' photos. But your writing about how and why is what brings me back every morning.
I am not a fan of photography that relies on a spectacular scene or subject to justify its worth, I like photos of the world around me and the minute details of everyday life, and you nail this.
I love the series of dancing girls. You are good at finding the beautiful.
That bad cup of coffee influenced you too much.
I am not so articulate that I feel I can comment often, but today I had to. Your blog is invaluable.
I’ve often wondered why people blog. It’s a lot of work without much of a visible reward. But I’m glad you do. I start out each morning with a cup of coffee and a few good blogs. Yours is the first on the list.
Writing reveals a person over time, in a way that a single photograph is unable to do. Maybe the outcome of your blogging is something like a portrait series. Not so much a self portrait, rather a portrait of the life of a working photographer, without hype. Lots of insight about photography and life.
One aspect of your photographs on this blog which I enjoy is photos of Austin Texas. If ever I visit Austin I will have a visual language that will make it seem quite familiar, with Kirk Tuck characteristics.
Anyway, whatever your are doing, thanks, much appreciated.
Kirk, the photographs are secondary for me to be honest, and always have been. I'm here every new post for the writing, and I suspect the majority of your audience is too. I couldn't categorise what you do, and I don't care to try really - I just enjoy your writing for what it is - I learn about what makes a particular person on this planet tick, and that's quite rare. The fact that you are a photographer is a bonus.
For the record, there is at least one member of your 'audience' who is interested in - and appreciates a ridiculous amount of - your writing. Me. Moi. Yo. And also for the record, I am a writer (screenplays, mainly) both by profession, inclination, and mental disposition - so from one writer to another....dude, your words are seriously enjoyed and often admired. As are, by the way, your photographs.
abrazos,
Miguel
More foodie snaps and at the very least download some cat photos from Unsplash to satisfy all those photocatographers. That oughta spice it up. For me, I enjoy reading your blog every day for the humor, your exploits, and the photography.
Kirk, I don't consider your site a photography blog, I consider it a site about a photographer's experiences and thoughts. Yours is one of the very few in this vein that does it well and does it with substance. I LIKE reading long, thoughtful posts. I enjoy the photos, too, but really they are the condiments for me. Keep up with the writing, and do whatever moves you with the pics.
Most of us are here for the writing. The photos are a bonus, unless they happen to be the main subject. It’s an opportunity to have that morning cup of coffee with a guy we’d really like to join at the table, but can’t.
When the topic is the detailed description of an actual shoot it’s an opportunity to go along vicariously...maybe pick up a tip or two, learn something...but mainly it’s a way to savor some of the experience without having to do any of the lifting. We appreciate it greatly.
There’s no anticipation of a steady stream of free entertainment crafted to satisfy a demanding audience. We’re acutely aware of the fact when there is no new posting for several days, but I think everybody realizes that you are extremely busy working for a living. Anything we get is a gift.
Thank you.
I read your blog for the life the life the life.
>>I always thought the audience I imagined I was writing for was interested in the writing. Interested in what I thought about a certain subject or event. Why I work the way I do. What ways the gear influences in the work. What motivates me to work<<
I am interested in exactly those things, and yes, those things more than your excellent photographs.
Rube
Hi Kirk,
First, a huge thank you for your candid, personal and insightful writing here on VSL. Like others have said, I read your blog every day. For me it’s like having coffee every morning with a close friend who shares many of the same life experiences: professional, family, and the deeply personal. I appreciate it all. Your creative victories, seeing your professional skills expand, the ups and downs of business and life in general, your insights into human behavior (and bafflement by same) and your generous sharing of the processes you have developed. It’s like WOW - I get to hang out with this amazing dude. I’m sure I feel a deeper personal connection with you than with some of my close friends.
I only regret that the relationship is so one-sided. You’ve shared all this and I haven’t even bought you a cup of coffee or a good danish yet! I owe it to you to find a way to fix that. I’m sure I speak for hundreds of other readers who feel the same way (come on folks - clap your hands and send a thank you to Kirk!)
— john merlin
The words explain the photos and the photos explain the words. The combination challenges me to improve my photography and my writing.
I am interested to read what you write, or I wouldn't have been coming here for however long it's been to read it every day. I don't personally shoot portraits of people (or barely any pictures of people at all for that matter), but I like to see yours and read about how you lit them (I know nothing about lighting - what I've learned here excepted).
I don't work as a photographer, but I'm interested to know about your work. If nothing else it gives me an understanding of how bad some of the photographers the company I work for hire are (or how badly briefed they are).
I don't live in Austin, but I'm interested to read how it's changed over the years, and how the alternative lifestyles that once flourished have been commercialised and commoditised, how rampant property development rips the soul from a city. I find it interesting to draw parallels with where I live and other places I've been.
Others things I don't do or know anything about include swimming, video, drinking coffee and trail running. But I like to read about it.
I don't even come for the camera chat specifically – while the brand I own has also been used by you at times, so have all the other brands which I don't own. And I'm interested to hear about those too.
I like photos too, of course.
It's all good.
Hi Kirk,
Like all the others above, I read your blog primarily to read what you write about and, frankly, about what's going on with you. Over the several years I've been reading your blog (and occasionally commenting), I've gone from thinking "Oh, here's an interesting and successful photographer that I can learn from" to "What's my friend Kirk doing today and how are things going with him." Yes, that's right, I've come to consider you a friend even through we've not met (if you ever come to New England....), as you've let me into your life and shared that with me/us your readers. That's a real gift and I, for one, appreciate it. For the record,I usually like your "repetitive, sterile and lifeless(!)" photographs.
Rene
Well I enjoy your photographs and your writing. Please keep up the good work.
I too am here for the writing (unless you start shooting underwater). Your blog reminds me of Jay Rayner's food reviews in the London Guardian. I read them not because I am ever going to eat at most of his reviewed spots but because of the way he writes. Keep it up please
Interested in reading the blog. And I enjoy also the images!
Kirk,
I like your writing, your highly professional attitude, most of the "boring" images and above all your wonderful portraits. The moment you start posting long exposed waterfall images I'll scream and never return ;-)
Three, you have three readers, who like the word "video" ;)
Otherwise, show the pictures and videos that are important to you. This is not a wish list or commission. And, I like the blog very much.
Ulrich Berger
We DO come here for the writing, first and foremost. As others have stated, the photographs are an additional and enjoyable bonus. Perhaps you misjudge your audience. Please keep doing it.Whether it is about photography or life and all that that entails, ALL of it is deeply appreciated and one of this reader’s daily pleasures to read. Perhaps that coffee was worse than you think and put you in a funk? Write and post whatever suits your fancy, but please keep writing and posting your thoughts.
Hey, Kirk.
My friend, you have a great deal to offer us readers and, quite frankly, I think the photos are almost secondary. I truly enjoy your writing, not just for the content regarding photography and video, but for your reflections on the industry, profession and world around you. And like others have stated, I enjoy the insight into your life and how it reflects your values as they co-exist away from the professional world. You are a brilliant writer with a wonderful insight and intellect. Thank you for sharing your gift!
Apparently I'm one of the two who enjoy your video posts, or perhaps the third guy you weren't aware of..... I particularly enjoyed your most recent posts and discussion on using the three camera setup for the Ann Richard's play interview. I do video work as well, and it's nice and always informative to hear the challenges others face and how to overcome them (or sometimes work-around).
I think it's true for all of us to say most don't give a damn about our photographs. I would also say it's true most of us don't give a damn about other's opinions of our photographs. I actually consider most of my photographs rather mundane, shot just for the fun or sport of composing and shooting. Of course there are always those which are special, if to no one else but me, and I'm always willing to share even if the viewer does not see the story behind the photo. And that's entirely okay.
I'm reminded of the late Anthony Bourdain, who once commented he wrote his book "Kitchen Confidential" with the belief nobody would read it. Of course it made him famous. But he wrote it unencumbered with the thought of writing what he thought others would want to read, and instead just wrote what was in his heart and mind. Listening to him during the interview, it seemed he needed to unload his experiences, thoughts and ideas onto a page, if for no other reason than to release them, perhaps purging his mind in preparation for the inevitable 'reloading' of new experiences and observations, of which he would again need to share in order to free up intellectual, spiritual and emotional space. If no one else ever reads it is secondary, if the mission has fulfilled its purpose. Write on, Kirk, and, perhaps like Anthony, you have an audience far larger than you realize.
Those are great photos. I enjoyed looking at them.
Hi Kirk,
In addition to a 'regular' job, as a wanna-be-better photographer and a pretty-good poet, I found the blog (years ago!) through the techniques and pictures, but always come back (to any blog) for the writing. I enjoy your voice and style, and do read every day. I don't get the value prop of producing a blog, as you say, "free content [work] for anonymous [unpaying] consumers,", but I sure am glad you've sorted it out.
I'm currently a Fuji shooter and am happy you've caught up. I've read the blog for years before this confluence, and will read long after you (or I) switch away.
In any blogged field (let alone photography), there is so little value placed in good writing. You and TOP are the two blogs (across MANY genres) where there is a focus good, quality writing not as an end, but as a foundational value. Because of that I feel familiar and comfortable here. It is a unique find in the vast internet world.
Thank you.
Hi Kirk,
Please repeat after me: "I am not having an existential crisis, I am not having an existential crisis".
I am not sure why you blog. I don't think I could write well enough, come up with enough original content, have sufficient inspiration or enough patience to do it. So I am profoundly grateful that you do it. I just hope you continue, preferably forever.
Here is why I come to your blog:
- Your writing – which is entertaining, insightful, amusing, tongue-in-cheek, thought provoking and addictive.
- Your photos – I am almost certain that if I was wandering around behind you with my X-T2 I would shoot almost exactly the same shots. So they resonate with me. Others may not see as much in them. But I have reached a point in my life (slightly older than you) where whatever conventions and advice exist about what consists of fine art, good composition, dynamic range, lighting, exposure, sharpness, etc., etc., etc., just do not matter to me any more. If I shoot something I like, I like it (and 95% of what I shoot I think is crap). If you publish something I like, I like it.
- Your profession – Being a frustrated ex-professional photographer, now retired entrepreneur and wannabe again professional, your descriptions of your professional life and challenges are an inspiration to me (and also give me some sobering thoughts).
- Your health advice – Regrettably I have let myself go but in the last few years I have managed to get my weight down and get more in shape. Reading about your efforts to stay fit are truly motivational and have helped me stick with it.
- Fond memories - Your Austin pictures bring back memories of a couple of nice business trips I took to Austin and wishing I had time to explore it.
Here is why I wish I had not:
- Along with B&H essentially selling a new X-H1 for 300 bucks (admittedly with a lens on top), you have just made me buy an X-H1.
- The panic this article induced in me that you might stop.
As with the other comments above, I hope we have given you enough validation to continue. If you do not, I will always be grateful for what you have given us.
Sincere thanks,
Jon
Dealing with the public- always an A-hole in the group.
What they said above.
Kirk, sometime your reader also had a shitty week. He is comforted by reading your posts, but doesn’t have the energy to write a comment.
I wish you had a “like” button so I can single you that I am here, reading and thinking about you and your life and their meaning for me.
P.s. keep on the boring building photos. Sometimes I photograph a building and I find I can crop it in an infinite number of ways ...
Kirk, today was the first time in a long time that I had some free time at the office, and I stopped by your blog. I was somewhat taken aback by the nature of today's post, but I can certainly understand your feelings in response. I thought the photos looked great!
Kirk
Sigh. Get home late and damn near everything's been said. Yes, I come for the writing and the pictures. Both are excellent. There are probably others that attempt to do similar. Don't know. I haven't looked.
It's the ongoing classes that make me check this site several times a day instead of just once. From composition, technical issues (get the wb right), how to do a portrait, and aspects of the business of photography. You've got several books here. All I can say is thank you.
Jay
Also Larry Sumners is right.
Mike Johnston over at the online photographer claims to not really being a professional photographer at all -- he's a professional writer about photography. You are apparently both, photographer and writer. Maybe you write the blog because that's what writers do, and if you didn't write, you'd have a big hole in your life. So suck it up.
JC
Ignore the masses demanding gratification. Ming Thein fielded the same comments about his street photography. Thank the heavens your shots ooze positivity and the pleasure of just ... photographing.
Posturing is for poseurs.
"More sterile and lifeless photographs"
KIRK! STOP THAT! You're dangerously close to sounding like a certain thin-skinned pseudo-politician who complains about "fake news."
"I always thought the audience I imagined I was writing for was interested in the writing. Interested in what I thought about a certain subject or event. Why I work the way I do. What ways the gear influences in the work. What motivates me to work instead of just retiring from the field and frittering life away."
And you thought right.
For the record, I love the way you write, and I like your thinking and humor, and I don't give a rat's ass about the gear or photographs per se, but I think maybe the blog would suffer if you eliminated them ... or video.
My browser's bookmarks contain dozens of photography-oriented blogs and review sites and so on memorized. Most of them are six or seven years old. But there are only two that I hit AT LEAST once a day: yours and Mike Johnston's. TOP & VSL have earned a spot on the Firefox bookmarks toolbar. You've stood the test of time. And so, over time, I've incrementally looked at some of these others, decided I didn't need them, and deleted the bookmarks.
Maybe you're just a bit tired. I know that I can get a shitty outlook if I'm not rested. It's sort of like a self-induced depression.
... and by the way:
Isn't Iceland a great place to take pictures?
Kirk:
Thanks you for writing. I have no idea why you do it; I definitely enjoy doing my part and reading it. I love love love your pieces about the business of being an entrepreneur photographer and small businessman.
I also enjoy writing, which is mostly limited to travelogues of my travels and mostly a (very) small audience of friends and family.
Th pics are a bonus - some I enjoy, some I don’t, some I wish I had taken.
And as several others have said, you and Mike Johnstone are at the top of my daily list.
What, no Icelandic cat photos?
"I always thought the audience I imagined I was writing for was interested in the writing. Interested in what I thought about a certain subject or event. Why I work the way I do. What ways the gear influences in the work. What motivates me to work instead of just retiring from the field and frittering life away."
Your original premise is correct. Hang in there.
Your pretty pictures are quite pretty, by the way.
Those who wrote earlier said everything I could so I won't be repetitive.
I moved from Boston to rural Ireland late in 2008. Got lonely for a while. Stumbled across your blog in Jan 2009 when your first started blogging.
You've been a trusted friend ever since.
Yes, I'm a bad amateur photographer and your words on capturing photons and gear are interesting. But following your writing, sport, family, philosophy, and Studio Dog are what keeps me looking out for your posts.
Don't pay attention to the naysayers.
ted
Kirk:
I trust that you have read and taken to heart all of the comments above, with which I wholeheartedly agree, but won't repeat. They have been authored by people who are far more erudite than I.
Your blog is an essential part of who you are. If you want to know anything about Kirk Tuck, read his blog. Methinks it is just as important to Kirk Tuck as it is to the rest of us, and both parties would be sorely diminished by its absence.
Keep truckin' my friend. The road ahead is wide open.
Terry Rogers
Hey Matie I ditto all the above, couldn’T have said it differently bravo Zulu!!!
Dear Ken/Kirk:
RE:" they are abstract and somewhat sterile construction environments, as they are constantly repeated".
Kirk: I don't think he is being mean; you do do a lot of rectangular
buildings. and he was complimenting you on this post. and his take-
back was very considerate.
Ken: I think he takes so many "sterile construction environments" because
he is always testing a camera or lens and these are like "brick wall"
test shots.
Hi Kirk, just confirming that you blog for the right reasons and in the right way. Not just for me, and not just for you either, and certainly not for clicks and affiliate link revenues.
I was surprised to read from other comments here that I am not the only one who has VSL and TOP on his bookmarks toolbar -- the only photography blogs that have earned that status, in my case.
And part of that specialness for you and Mike is the raw reality of your blogs. There is no persona, no presentation, no act. No product. It is more like a "dear diary" in its honesty.
For what feels like ten years now, I always look forward to your next entry, and I even like looking forward to discovering whether it will interest me or not. It doesn't always have to interest me. It's you.
Regards,
Grant
Adelaide
Kirk please please please don't let one Ill conceived comment change one iota of how you go about this blog. You clearly have a large devoted following that eagerly awaits each of your posts (I certainly do). Changing what you do because of one miserable comment makes no sense. In my line of business (primarily data analysis) we learn to disregard anecdotal "evidence".
As you know, my approach to photography blogging includes almost no pictures. I have gotten a crapload of pushback on this point over the years.
Stay the course and do what you want. Most of the people who read your blog don't comment, and you may assume that they like what you do because, well, they're here, right?
Wow, it HAD to be a tough week! As so many already said, I visit you daily for the writing first, the photography (excellent as it is) second. VSL and TOP are always models of prose style, enjoyable to read even when the subject is not personally compelling. The excellence of your images- especially the loving treatment of your wife and son-make VSL uniquely rewarding. No blog has anything as compelling as your decades-long albums of Belinda and Ben.
Hey for me you, being often a portrait photographer is plenty. I check in daily to see what you posted no matter if I comment or not. You beat yourself up too much me thinks :)
Please Kirk, keep it up! I read your blog every day and appreciate the effort and thought it takes. Being on the other side of the world (NZ) I appreciate the photos of Austin, especially as I'm now unlikely to ever visit it. It's also a reminder that in spite of the impression given by your president there are wonderful thoughtful and talented people in the US.
Sheeet mate your having a bad hair week.Truth is im like a lot of your devoted followers here for the substance from a real person doing real work and not some empty headed parasite of an influencer.Its about the journey as they say and its been fun so far and i hope there are many more miles in the tank because in a funny sort of way i regard you and your ramblings as one of my imaginery friends
Yes, Kirk, kittens! Nah, you're good.
Kirk, old retired guy here. I own cameras but I'm not a photographer. I enjoy taking a camera for a walk. Sometimes I take a few pictures but I always enjoy looking around to see what's going on and also to look if I can see a picture. To hear from a real person who can see as a photographer, and often on command, is something I enjoy most every day. Thanks for taking the time to keep up your blog.
You'll see me and my friends "supervising" at construction sites; there's always one who's skinny and wearing hiking boots and cargo shorts. That's not me. I'm the one with the ice cream cone and the camera bag.
Hi Kirk
Im one of the strange people that com here mostly for your writing. I might be a minority i dont know. But i enjoy your rants about your reflections, and your sarcastic posts most. That's the cake served with my morning cafeen. the fotos are the icing on the cake. but its your writhing i come here for.
Its 9 am here in Denmark right now and i was happy to see 2 new post this morning!
Thanks for posting
VSL is one of my daily online stops. I enjoy your writing, photography, and topics. I especially appreciate your candor and respect for your readers. Keep writing.
For what it's worth, below are the reasons I keep coming back daily to visit your blog (in descending order of importance to me):
1. Your reviews of cameras/lenses taken from your experiences in the field.
2. Your descriptions of the logistical challenges in setting up and executing the various paid gigs.
3. Postings of your portrait photos.
Keep up the great work! You should feel free to scale back to posting just once a week if you feel like the responsibility of adding new content becomes too much to deal with.
Surely you had this salient passage in mind when you reposted the blog from 2010:
"The ultimate risk is working when you are the only audience. When you stop caring what other people think about your work and you make work that is uninflected by the subtle pressure of others."
That's the ultimate, as you say, but you also said you aren't there yet. Keep working on it. If you love your photographs, you don't need anyone else's approval.
"I have a friend in Austin who is a professional photographer". I wonder how many times I've said that to people over the last 10 years I've read your blog. We don't know each other and likely will never meet unless I finally make the trip to Collings Guitars in Austin, or you make a trip to the eastern Tennessee mountains after I make the move in the next 18 months and you happen by my mountaintop property. I own the cameras I own because of your words. I'm an average photographer only because your words made me better than the beginner I was. But I don't really care about photography as a art form (yes I said that). It's a time machine, a chronicler, a tool. Yes, photographs matter, but words matter more. I like your words. Carry on.
Don't let the assholes get you down.
I read your blog every day and I love the pictures you post as much as the words you write.
I enjoy your blog - the stories of a real life and the sense of humour. It's like sitting in the pub and listening to your tales over a glass or two. It's communication and it's community - those are valuable!
Great post.
I like the old G9 images. You should ask to go to the Antarctic. Say its for your readers.
I see robo links in the future. Paste a link into a site and it will randomly show images to keep the knobs happy. Please don't do that.
David
Hi Kirk. I have decided to visit your blog as I always do, usually enjoying your philosophical viewpoints as much if not more than the photography that accompanies them. However, despite you commonly complaining about not getting enough comments to show that there is an involved readership, every time I comment I am misconstrued, getting sarcastic or worse retorts and often getting featured in the next post. Yes, I will continue to visit your blog but I will no longer comment. Despite being about the same age as you and having been in photography, both amateur and professional, it seems we are destined to be unable to strike common ground in our ability to communicate or be properly understood. Is it worth coming back to your blog? Yes. Is it worth dealing with the strange inability to communicate? No. Thanks for the blog and it's often enjoyable philosophical ramblings.
PS I tried boldfacing the positive comments that you often seem to miss when I write to you but the HTML was not accepted.
Thanks for responding Ken. I'm sorry if I've misconstrued your points. It's not intentional on my part. I appreciate you letting me know.
It's the plight of the craft of photography, to always be a little uncomfortable with what we are doing.
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